If you read/listened my blog post yesterday you’ll know that I was attending the HelpStream webinar that was supposed to discuss if Social CRM has Crossed the Chasm. As I listened and tweeted about the webinar conversation I came to a few conclusions:
- Social CRM is far from the chasm. If Social CRM were a marathon runner it would still be tying it’s shoes, stretching before the race has even started.
- Companies, including those that are building so-called Social CRM applications, do not understand what Social CRM is all about. Most, including those who spoke in today’s webinar, were describing what I refer to as Social Support Communities (SSC).
- Companies must be careful about preaching engagement when they are not prepared to listen.
Social CRM is far from the chasm
While the webinar was supposed to focus on Social CRM’s location in regards to the chasm no one discussed this, or even attempted to answer the question at all. The core question failed to be addressed….
As I noted yesterday, CRM Software has been across the chasm for years. The successful implementation of CRM, and for that matter Social CRM, is far from the chasm. It does not see the chasm, it is still waiting for directions.
Social Support Communities are not Social CRM
Every participant in the webinar discussed their use, or their support of, Social CRM. However, as the concepts were discussed it became clear that they were all discussing SSC. Since I have never defined this term before, let’s clarify:
- SSC is a discussion group, a forum, on steroids.
- SSC incorporates social networks as additional channels through which customer conversations can occur.
- SSC enables customers to directly converse with other customers. Companies and partners can also be equal participants in this conversation, but are often playing the role of moderators in the examples provided by the webinar participants.
- SSC is a small subset of Social CRM, a very small subset.
- SSC focuses on the customer almost exclusively, ignoring in large part, other participants in the marketplace including the company, partners, and competitors.
- SSC focuses on customer support services. It fails to provide value in marketing, sales, finance, or other aspects where CRM is utilized.
Eat your own dogfood. If you preach engagement, engage, listen.
Throughout the webinar several people, myself included, challenged the conclusions being drawn during the webinar. As is typical, I will raise concerns if I do not feel the full story is being told. At around 1:30 PM ET my Social CRM friend Esteban noted “@JohnFMoore webinar as well as most published case studies are about communities – not SCRM. SCRM not yet done #scrm #scrmseries #scrm”.
At around the same time I noted, also on Twitter: “RE http://bit.ly/KZ0UL(expand) @gyehuda Yes, true. However, this #scrmseries addresses #social support communities, not #scrm” .
If you are a Social CRM, or SSC, company engaging in a webinar about Social CRM you must be proactive in engaging, communicating, relationship building. Leaving open questions like this in the market speaks more to a company working with old models of preaching messages vs. the new world where companies are expected to listen. Time will tell how this all shapes up, I’m not impressed yet.
John
February 9, 2010 at 1:20 am
[...] practically manage the various social streams that they will want to leverage. It is clear that Social Support Communities (SSC) will be a critical tool that many companies will want to deploy, but the question, of course, is [...]
December 18, 2009 at 1:36 am
[...] approach to leveraging social media to improve their customer’s experiences, using tools like SSC in the [...]
December 3, 2009 at 6:40 pm
John, thanks for the exchanges on Twitter and via email on this. Having pondered it, I think you’re right. Getting the terminology correct is an important step as we enter this brave new world. Social support communities are the accurate way of looking at what’s happening in today in most (if not all) Social CRM products and implementations, IMO.
Take care,
Louis
@marascio
December 3, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Thank you Louis. I appreciate you feedback, your insights, and am glad we’re chatting as I am learning a lot from the exchanges. -John
November 26, 2009 at 12:41 am
[...] that TeamSupport is not a Social Support Community (SSC) and is not trying to be a “social” solution, it just wants to be a great support [...]
October 24, 2009 at 1:57 pm
This is regarding 2 points:
” 1. SSC focuses on the customer almost exclusively, ignoring in large part, other participants in the marketplace including the company, partners, and competitors.
2. SSC focuses on customer support services. It fails to provide value in marketing, sales, finance, or other aspects where CRM is utilized.”
I agree with you – there are several aspects beyond social support communities (SSC) – as far as providing value, SSC fall short – that is where collabartive tools can fill in the gap – if your social support communities can help marketing and sales teams to conducts surveys, define custom forms to collect business specific data, accept suggestions and work upon then, these SSC now become customer collaboration communities.
Thanks,
Abhijeet
October 24, 2009 at 2:00 pm
I agree with you Abhijeet. SSC will take us only so far. That does not mean the journey must end, just that there is a limit on how far this toolset will take us.
John
October 13, 2009 at 4:27 am
I get a lot of valuable information from your article. thanks
October 8, 2009 at 12:12 am
[...] http://johnfmoore.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/following-up-on-the-crossing-the-chasm-webinar-for-social… [...]
October 5, 2009 at 9:37 pm
[...] I would prefer to focus on names and solutions that deliver real value to customers, names like Social Support Communities for [...]
October 1, 2009 at 7:51 am
[...] http://johnfmoore.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/following-up-on-the-crossing-the-chasm-webinar-for-social… [...]
October 1, 2009 at 12:27 am
[...] under: CRM, CRM Thoughts | Tags: CRM, innovation, metrics, Social, Social Business Strategy, SSC | Social Support Communities, SSC, are real and they are here today. As you plan your budgets for 2010 consider how SSC [...]
September 21, 2009 at 4:21 pm
I agree John. Many companies, including vendors, are monitoring Social Media and condiering the “Social CRM” box ticked. How wrong they are.
Social Media Monitoring is simply watching the conversations being had to see how your company or brand is being discussed, with an option to participate if you need too. But watching and joining the dialogue is like using email, or a telephone. If you are not LOGGING that interaction against customer records, consolidating it with conversations also had over email or the phone, then I don’t know how it can be claimed its Customer Relationship Management.
We’ve just added a Social CRM element to our sales leads and business referrals network for SMEs. It enables our users to consolidate all their contact data in one place: customer databases, Outlook contacts, LinkedIn contacts and more. As they have conversations, regardless of medium, they can log what was said. It doesn’t matter where they had communication, it all gets logged in one place.
We’ll soon be adding Twitter and Facebook so contacts you have there can also be consolidated with records for the same people capturing conversations had by phone, email etc.
This seems like the most basic implementation of Social CRM, yet few are doing it that way.
Is it just that people are confused by the terms?
Ian Hendry
CEO, WeCanDo.BIZ
http://www.wecando.biz
September 21, 2009 at 8:35 am
[...] listened and tweeted most the webinar conversation I came to a … View example place here: Following up on the Crossing the Chasm Webinar for Social CRM … Posted in Uncategorized | Tags: about-the-webinar, attending-the-helpstream, chasm, crm, [...]
September 20, 2009 at 10:11 am
[...] Go to comments About a week ago John Moore @JohnFMoore put his stake in the ground on what Social Support Communities are in the arena of Social CRM. His definition centres around these Support oriented, such as for [...]
September 18, 2009 at 1:33 pm
So …. where do they need to be in order to claim “chasm crossed”?
September 18, 2009 at 2:10 pm
While I am not convinced that the chasm model is a good one for Social CRM I would say that it cannot be crossed until the criteria that the model sets forth is met. In general though, that would mean that we have true Social CRM applications and that we have moved past early adopters and the majority of companies are buying into the applications.
Just my two cents, what do you think?
John
September 17, 2009 at 12:52 am
[...] readers of my blog know I attended a webinar on Social CRM yesterday. I won’t repeat that post but would suggest you read it first. In [...]
September 16, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Excellent post John. Love how you call it as you see it. This debate will surely spawn a lot of great thinking and interesting blog posts. I see that Esteban has already made a great post clarifying what constitutes a “market” (http://bit.ly/17TyHd) and you’ll see a guest post from me on Esteban’s blog tomorrow with some thoughts around how SCRM might actually become part of a real, though broader, market.
September 16, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Possibly a silly question: what happens when it does cross the chasm? Bad things? Good things? SCRM evolution? Evaluation and change? Reinforcement? The next generation of SCRM?
September 16, 2009 at 11:33 pm
There are no silly questions Sarah, seriously. After the balloons fall and we celebrate a job well done….. We do it again.
The important thing is that our customers, and our customer’s customers, receive better solutions which enable better experiences by all.
John
September 16, 2009 at 11:34 pm
Thanks Anthony. I have never been one to hold back. Can’t wait to read your post tomorrow as I know I will learn a lot from it.
John
October 5, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Its really hard to get social CRM right… Some think that the answer would be to create profiles for companies on social networks. The idea then is to do a daily or weekly push via the social network. Its really hard for companies to act as social entities and I believe that most users think that companies should not make an appearance on social sites like facebook and twitter. However these users connect to these social networks on a frequent basis and they use various companies on a frequent basis too. If companies can supply users with valuable and relevant information via social networks then I think there might be a place for companies on these sites. The problem comes in supplying valuable content… Majority of companies do not have a constant stream of valuable information and that’s when these profiles become dormant and fade out…
September 16, 2009 at 9:13 pm
John,
I think you’re dead on. I love the acronym for Social Support Communities, it’s exactly what they are. Once again, terms are being hijacked by companies that can only deliver a piece of Social CRM, or CRM for that matter; and it’s just a piece technology. Sure, they throw some really important buzz phrases out there (most of them confuse me) that sound really intelligent. I like your SSC acronym much more than “Archetyping for need prediction”. ??
Which leads me into my support for your Podcast comments. CRM does fail because it’s implemented as a technology. It’s not a technology. Of course, the world has been introduced to it that way and that is what will remain to many.
Maybe SCRM will be the catalyst we need for companies to begin developing meaningful customer strategies. The people I follow have always seemed to talk about CRM as customer-oriented strategies. Now we throw customer-to-customer in the mix. Whoopi. Show me the money. That’s what our customers are going to say.
September 16, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Great comments Mike, I appreciate them. SSC is the right term in my opinion as well. All the rest is vendor hype leadig to marketing confusion….. More to come tonight.
John
September 16, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Hi John,
Great question(ing
First of all I agree that SSC is not SCRM. It cannot be, because Social CRM is a philosophy and/or a business strategy (as per the definition of scrm from Paul Greenberg: http://blogs.zdnet.com/crm/?p=829 ), not a business function, nor a technology, and certainly not a market ( http://www.estebankolsky.com/2009/09/16/i-am-not-a-scrm-market-expert-i-just-play-one-on-twitter/ )
Hence, the question whether Social CRM has already crossed the chasm, to me, is not about adoption of any Social Media / Web 2.0 / Software (as a service) / systems etc. According to the SCRM definition by Paul Greenberg, Social CRM is the company’s response to the customer’s ownership of the conversation..
Adoption of “systems” that enable that response, can only be an indicator of scrm adoption. Moreover, like you rightfully state in the podcast and above, CRM-systems have been adopted widely, yet CRM as a strategy is still far from the chasm. Adoption failed. (Not sure if technology, execution or strategy is the root cause. It is likely a combination of these).
Not many companies have yet adopted the scrm philosophy or formulated a strategy in line with the philosophy. But I think we all know companies that are well on their way and more will come.
What these companies need is not a sales pitch from inside-out thinking technology companies that want to sell technology. What they need is an understanding of what a Social CRM strategy is about.. (http://contactcenterintelligence.wordpress.com/2009/09/14/what-a-social-crm-strategy-is-all-about/ ;and the answer to that is far from complete still, open to your comments).. If they understand (and like) that, then they can start formulating their own strategy around the principles.. and maybe (yes maybe) they can then start thinking about new technology they need to support execution of the strategy.
To summarize: Our mutual #scrm-friend @ariegoldshlager said to me: Strategy should lead the way across the chasm, not technology..
Last, but not least, in line with your post-closing: Companies claiming to be scrm-technology providers should adopt the scrm philosophy first if they ever want their product or solution to cross the chasm.
Let me know what your thoughts are.
Wim
September 16, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Wim, I can’t top that. Thank you for the thoughtful comments, you are dead on.
John
September 16, 2009 at 9:19 pm
Wim,
As a side-note, and also another brick on the we-have-not-yet-crossed-the-chasm stance — the book says that the chasm cannot be crossed with a technology, it has to be a complete business strategy (including tools, products, and technologies).
sorry, i digress — but there is chasm here
September 17, 2009 at 3:28 pm
I agree that the industry is in an early stage with this whole SCRM thing and that we are at the SSC level in that discussion. As the technology develops we will see the flywheel start spinning to drive more corporate strategy which will then drive more technology.
It appears to me that we had some business strategy need pushing us toward SSC before the technology was available. Now that technology is available and businesses are figuring out how to apply it. The next round will come when the SSCs are ubiquitous and the next strategic demand arises. As with anything else, the technology and strategy will co-evolve. And that will take some time.
September 16, 2009 at 7:20 pm
John,
Very good post (and good podcast yesterday). If you are reading this standing up, sit-down — it is going to be a long one
(just kidding – half).
1. Has SCRM crossed the chasm. Technically, since it it not a new market, it can’t never cross it. But even if we leave that aside, let’s assume that we are talking about the gap between earlier adopters and massive adoption (which is another way to define the chasm for non-new markets).
To cross that gap you need to have a few things. Secondary (Type B in Gartner-speak) adoption necessitates best practices, case studies, and proven business case, ROI, costs and benefits, etc. Remember that these are the people that did not see an advantage to implementing early since they could not use it as a competitive differentiator or an advantage. They are going to implement because lots others did and they had good results. Applying that logic to the current SCRM market the answer is a resounding NO. We don’t even have many (if any at all) TRUE SCRM implementations (I am not talking about SSC as you define them either) to generate case studies, best practices, etc.
Now, let’s change technical directions and assume that SCRM is a new market being created and it will be worth over a 1BB in the next 5 years, and there is just one vendor sufficiently advanced to be nearing the chasm and either already crossed-it and it dominates the market, or is about and is a significantly differentiated player that can dominate the market.
You know what? never mind… none of those things are reality, so the chasm does not even exist yet, nor is there a vendor ready to cross it (even if we assume this new market to exist).
Now, on the second part of this — talking about SSC. I like the concept, it is a nice TLA (rolls off the tongue easy, has good buzz words) — it may even take off and then you can claim ownership and coinage (which is always good for your rep).
It is also a reality that we are doing what I used to call Collaborative CRM and that all your points above are true — except for one caveat — it does not ignore partners, competitors, etc. -it just considers them to be the same as clients. You don’t really ban anyone from contributing and you should encourage partners and probably even competitors from becoming super-users or power-users. These are the people you want around in your community — just not in their everyday role of trying to take clients away or trying to sell something. They are just like any other user in the community, contributing and augmenting the value the community has. If you still want them to be partners or competitors, then your community will quickly die.
There are several people I know in Executive roles that play their company’s cards that way – they are friends with the “enemy” and open up the kimono too much to partners — and they are very successful. To me the key is to grow a pie as big as you can, and you cannot do that alone. You need to collaborate and that includes partners and competitors — think about the same share of a bigger pie — isn’t that more than you have now?
As for walking the talk, I could not agree more — but then again, we all know that – right?
Great podcast/post combo!
September 16, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Esteban, as always I appreciate the response. I have a feeling that you and I will need to sit down one day and hammer this out in person. Evertytime I see a post or comment I learn, sometimes agreeing, sometimes disagreeing.
For now I will leave the chasm conversation to the side as, either way, we agree that the chasm and CRM are not near one another in any way, shape, or form.
Now, back to SSC. You cleared up something that had been bothering me, the role of other user types in regards to the overall community. Thank you for that.
I remain concerned by the label confusion between Social CRM and SSC, though. If we brand what we have today as Social CRM we risk giving into hype and failing to achieve the full value of SCRM. I’ll continue that debate here and on twitter, until I convince everyone that I am right.
John
September 16, 2009 at 9:16 pm
John,
You are indeed right about that. Keep in mind that the only ones “confusing” it are the vendors that stand to gain from that confusion — which is always the case (and one of the reasons i cite in my blog for SCRM not being a market – sorry, shameless plug ended).
Alas, you are right.
September 16, 2009 at 9:19 pm
Esteban, you can always include your “shameless plugs”, great blog.
I agree with you on the vendor-driven confusion. I’ll talk more about this in my blog post tonight, still waiting to see if the vendor I wrote about in this post (HelpStream) will respond to my questions. Going on 24 hours of silence.
John
September 16, 2009 at 6:39 pm
John, indeed I agree with your caveat (and indicated so on my tweet stream). The gist of that webinar was on social support forums — and as we know, these are not new at all. It mess other events in their series will cover other elements of CRM. I’m hoping for more too.
Most would agree that basic support forum are well past the chasm as a technology and used by many companies. What is new is the attempt to leverage those support forums (which in some cases were not even sanctioned by the company) and use them for the benefit of the company too (in addition to them being a benefit to customers). This implies some changes to the way a company does its CRM — like not ignoring the support forums as an appendix.) And even this is only part of the CRM story (to your point). That said, the energy around social CRM does point favorably to all of the stakeholders. If this improves customer loyalty and satisfaction while providing companies with unfiltered access to feedback mechanisms — and do so on the cheap — it seems that everyone benefits. Right?
My understanding is that most people know that the SCRM industry is struggling to cross the chasm. And the strange behavior is that we are looking at ways to learn how, together. Strange thing about “social” and “business” — it makes us rethink when and how we compete and collaborate.
September 15, 2009 at 11:53 pm
[...] Following up on the Crossing the Chasm Webinar for Social CRM « Random Thoughts of a Boston-based C… johnfmoore.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/following-up-on-the-crossing-the-chasm-webinar-for-social-crm – view page – cached Posted on September 15, 2009. Filed under: CRM, CRM Thoughts | Tags: CRM, efficiency, innovation, process, Social, Twitter | — From the page [...]