It is now, in my opinion, a waste of my time. Blunt, perhaps, but let me walk you through my thoughts on why I’m not going to actively use the service and also why I think services like this will offer real value in the future.
Why is it a waste of my time?
- Easy, I really do not want people to know where I am. Do you really care to know if I am at the local CVS, my office, or some other place? The majority of you do not care, nor should you. Yes, those businesses I visit, or am near to, should care. However, the truth is most of them do not yet care either. They will, just not yet.
- The mobile interface, especially on my Motorala Q (Windows Mobile) is painful to use. Searching for the venue, checking into the venue, a bit of a hassle and actually pretty slow. The performance of checking in takes seconds, not milliseconds. I don’t want to deal with this while I am on the run unless it’s fast.
- The majority of businesses I chat with are still waiting to see what happens with Foursquare before they decide their approach. There are not enough case studies with demonstrable results for most companies to jump in.
- I setup an experimental venue, to play with the To Do lists, activities, and associated items that should give a venue owner value. Upon creating the venue I was not provided any way to take ownership. I know that a select list of super uses do have more rights, Joe-average user does not.
My blog, as a venue, was shut down. Okay, bear with me because this is not simply John whining (okay, a little whining, but a real argument too). First, four great statements were made by my twitter community, people who I respect, who understand Foursquare better than I, but who I still disagree with. Here are their quotes:
- @SteveHall
- “Foursquare is a gold mine for retail. It’s a digital service that’s all about physical place. We have Digg, etc. for virtual”
- “Well. I’d have to agree with that venue being closed. A blog id not a not a place. Foursquare is about physical space.”
- @Courtenaybird
- “Marketers can still leverage 4SQ real/online creatively. A website as a checkin isn’t creative.”
- @Jenztweets
- “I agree with @stevehall, foursquare is about actually going places, not visiting websites.”
First, picture me whining “but… they shut down my venue…. “. 
- Super users can shut down your venue without notice. You do not find out until you happen to discover this yourself. Ah… does Starbucks want to run on a platform where there is no process to block this shut down, no notification?
- Foursquare has been defined as being about physical space. Like Facebook, which was originally defined as something for college students, went beyond its original purpose, it’s time for platforms like Foursquare to look beyond. The merging of the virtual worlds (Second Life, Forums, Blogs) with our Real World (Retail Stores, Coffee Shops) is happening. Did someone miss a meeting?
Why is there potential in a Foursquare like system?
Systems that tie our real-world to our virtual existences, that bring incentives, will motivate behavior. Pavlov’s dogs are not the only ones salivating when that bell rings. The system, to succeed, must:
- Be fast and be easy to use on a mobile device.
- Tie my past buying patterns to deals being offered. If I buy toothpaste from CVS every three weeks and I am walking in three weeks after my last purchase, remind me and give me a coupon.
- If I am checking in on the Rite-aid web site (yes, checking in), tell me about the 2 for 1 sale they have on toothpaste at the store two blocks from my house.
- Provide tools for local chambers of commerce to put together buying packages, scavenger hunts, fun games, that lead to people checking out more of the local places (sites, stores, whatever). I want you to come to my local town, check out a local restaurant, rent a movie from any of our video stores, by 2 boxes of candy at the local CVS and yes, you will then be rewarded with a $5 gift card to any store in town.
- If people visit my web site and read three blog posts and make Mayor of my blog I might want to provide them with a discount at one of the local stores in my town, driving traffic back to local venues.
Alright, I want my venue opened up again….. I guess it’s time to go check out Gowalla, maybe they get what I am talking about….
John
May 29, 2010 at 8:42 pm
Interesting comment about how chambers of commerce can utilize the service to promote local businesses. I’m going to bring it to my local chamber to see if there is interest.
Thanks.
February 23, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Hey very nice blog!!
February 20, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Great read, very use info here. I will definatly bookmark this site for future reference. keep up the good work!
February 3, 2010 at 10:15 pm
Interesting perspective- I won’t argue with any of it. Your opinions are valid. Questions for you:
As a technology thought leader, what is the trend and what does it mean? Haven’t all technologies and experiences on the early part of a major trend faced the same issues? You are walking away but are you suggesting others will too?
Re: Your discussions with large B2C companies. Sure – it took almost a decade for many of these companies to figure out online search was important. Are they essential to make the ecosystem work? BTW, you just might not be talking to the right people (said with great respect). P&G opened an office in Silicon Valley for a reason.
Regarding the focus on physical space – We are early days. Focus and purpose are critical. I see great value in keeping products simple to understand and to value. It is probably too early too blur the lines.
February 3, 2010 at 10:34 pm
Thank you John, appreciate the feedback and insights you bring to the conversation.
My biggest concern with Foursquare is it’s ability to articulate value to businesses in a timeframe and manner that enables it to be successful.
Now, am I suggesting that users that already love the product walk away? Absolutely not. I have friends who love the game and who get great joy from the mayorships and badges. They will not walk away anyday soon nor will countless others.
However, am I suggesting that Foursquare, or some other applicaition that wants to take a serious run at this space, focus on providing real business value and management capabilities sooner than later? Yes. Am I suggesting that there should be a blurring of real and virtual properties? Yes?
Finally, I do think local solutions are a critical component to the success of local businesses and will provide ways to differentiate over many large chains that will be slower to adopt new solutions. However, my incentives as a business to join are small.
I would love to chat further, if interested, to better understand your thinking. I always have much to learn and appreciate the insights everyone brings to these types of conversations.
Thanks,
John
February 2, 2010 at 4:54 pm
I don’t really see the problem. Suggesting that online “locations” be included in Foursquare is like asking to index a physical address in Technorati. It just doesn’t fit the metaphor, and it starts a kind of misusage creep that’s hard to stop once it begins. I’m a superuser on Foursquare, and had I seen it, I would have closed your blog entry, too. Whether or not Foursquare ever becomes about virtual spaces, it isn’t there now and that’s not the way the engaged user community has agreed to use it.
February 2, 2010 at 4:57 pm
Thanks Kate. While we clearly disagree I appreciate your comments and your passion for the game.
I have already found a couple of startups entering the Foursquare/GoWalla space that will be addressing this cross section of virtual and real worlds better, in my opinion, than Foursquare for the uses that I see. Time, and the market, will be the only decider in which is the right path. Either way, will be fun to watch.
John
February 2, 2010 at 12:41 am
As an FYI Dennis (@dens), creator of Foursquare, commented, and I responded, here:
http://www.govloop.ca/?p=165&cpage=1#comment-28
John
January 30, 2010 at 9:11 pm
John
I too tired way quickly of the amount of effort vs return messing with 4square.
Actually, there already is a more interesting, less painful & more socnet integrated service — the new Ovi Maps mobile GPS upgrade now with seamless integration with Facebook via app.
I can ‘share my location’ with two clicks (even possible when driving which is just wrong, wrong, kids ; > ) and it automatically pushes the status update back thru my FB feed — and thus thru all other feeds in my lifestream loop, e.g. twitter, Friendfeed, etc.
2 clicks. Pretty cool.
And now that Zuckerberg has shamelessly exposed all this to the public interwebs, smart retailers can start figuring out how to reach me when I’m near.
January 30, 2010 at 9:12 pm
Great point Thom. Perhaps the next post I write about Foursquare, which is not in the immediate future, will simply be: “Goodbye Foursquare”.
Appreciate the note, great information.
John
January 30, 2010 at 8:51 pm
John, let me offer a few of counter-proposals to you:
1. Even if you don’t find any personal use in tech like this, we’re almost compelled to keep up with what’s happening in this mobile space. So step away, but don’t go too far. You never know when it’ll actually provide the value that your company or clients are going to need. It’s one reason why I can’t give up on any technology no matter how niche it appears to be right now.
2. I think the folks at Foursquare (can’t speak to Gowalla – they only play nice with iPhone/Android users right now) are working with local businesses to reveal the benefits to them. Here in Austin, there are a handful (and growing) of businesses that are giving rewards to their “mayors” and frequenters who check-in through Foursquare.
3. I’m curious about these companies you’re chatting with and their “wait and see” approach. They’re looking for case studies? This isn’t complex calculus, here. A local bakery is using it to reward their customers. And guess what? It’s working. So perhaps waiting for a long-term case study, these businesses should actively chat with businesses who are using it and develop an approach. Or send them my way, and I’ll be happy to share some of the strategies I use with clients interested in experimenting with a new approach to building loyal customers.
January 30, 2010 at 9:01 pm
Thanks Chris, great points all the way around. The businesses that I am talking about are large, very large, B2C companies that are trying to determine where to invest their efforts as they go down to their local store levels. Most view Foursquare and the like as a game, which it still is, and do not see the value in going there.
I do agree, however, that your local bakery, pub, restaurant, if they are savvy, it is easy to get started. I do have major concerns about the ability to simply close a venue without warning, that point alone is the reason I would advise against “going there”. If/when Foursquare addresses this I will be back and I will be happy to advise others to do the same.
Thanks Chris, I appreciate the comments and, while I do not plan on staying away for now, I will keep checking in. When Foursquare, or the truly business focused local service jumps in, I will be all over it.
John
January 30, 2010 at 2:28 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by John Moore, John Moore, John Moore, Tweet CRM, Jungchan Hsieh and others. Jungchan Hsieh said: Why I am walking away from @Foursquare: http://bit.ly/a3gqTG #social #cmo #marketing via @JohnFMoore [...]
January 30, 2010 at 11:23 am
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Twitter by JohnFMoore: My latest, why I am walking away from @Foursquare: http://bit.ly/a3gqTG #social #cmo #marketing…
January 29, 2010 at 5:06 pm
I am going to stick with 4Square for a while longer. Granted the interface on the BB Bold is still in need of work, but it does allow me to enter where I am when I remember to. That is the issue I see – you have to remember to enter the information – in order for it to be effective.
I was out to dinner with my wife last night and until I saw your post, I forgot that I had not entered where we went when e were there. Now, I could enter it now, but that changes the premise of the program. I am no longer there, I was there but I forgot to tell anyone so should I enter it now and maybe become a mayor (not that that means anything in the real world) or should I just chalk it up to experience and try to remember next time?
January 29, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Thanks Roy. I wouldn’t go back and check-in now, but clearly your call.
Thanks for weighing in, by the way. It’s an interesting topic, going to stay on top of this one for a while.
John
January 29, 2010 at 2:28 pm
Retail is a $2 trillion a year business. And of that, 96% is spent at physical locations. Up until recently most of the innovation has be around the 4% spent online.
With new smart phones, GPS services and a low cost of entry location-aware search and marketing is definitely the next “it” market that will explode. Chris Brogan’s article that you commented on sums this up nicely: http://www.openforum.com/idea-hub/topics/technology/article/get-ahead-of-the-location-game-chris-brogan
However, I agree with your point about this being very early. If you think of that 96%, many of them will NEVER want to play a game or check in somewhere. I know my wife (who does the bulk of grocery buying and local retail for my household) has no desire to let people know where she is or become the mayor of anything…she is busy enough being the mayor of the house.
However, there are services being launched that are melding local search and location-aware services that are quite useful. AroundMe is a great app that aggregates other apps for movies, restaurants and other venues.
And, here is the self-serving plug, http://www.wantANDfound.com is a website and iPhone app that uses location-based-services to service a purpose. It allows shoppers to find, share and post deals from local businesses around them. It allows businesses to post what they need to sell today (a cancelled time slot, a jacket in June or mile that expires tomorrow). It gives businesses an online, social and mobile marketing platform in less than 1 minute. It is quick, easy and leverages all of the tools mentioned above, but not in a game. Games have purpose and I think you will see Foursqaure and Gowalla adding features outside of games, how, when and where are still a question.
Utility will drive adoption, and that is coming. It will show up across many of these apps, we are all just going at it a bit differently.
January 29, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Thanks Paul. Great stats, great info, and no problem whatsoever with the self-serving plug.
John
January 29, 2010 at 5:03 am
If your problem with Foursquare is that it deals only with physical locations, then Gowalla won’t be a solution for you. Gowalla requires a phone with GPS and check-ins are based on that, you must be in a precise physical location that the GPS can detect.
Location-based games are still a new thing, they’re largely unknown by most people outside the tech industry. You made an analogy about Facebook, but that took years to happen. These guys have been around less than a year at this point. Going by the FB standard, they’ve got a lot of time to grow. There are businesses that offer discounts, and more will start eventually. The iPhone foursquare app will show you tips about businesses nearby wherever you check in. They’ve opened it up to be available to all cities now. And Gowalla has gone a step further and has extra stuff, like “items” that you find at certain locations. They both are adding new features consistently, there’s every reason to expect that will continue.
I only have a Samsung Impression, I don’t find that it takes long to check in. I have a lot of fun with it and enjoy being able to see where my friends are. Besides, I’m perfectly content for this to be just a little tech-world thing that doesn’t become wildly popular, I’ll lose all my mayorships.
January 29, 2010 at 11:24 am
Thanks Jenz. I truly appreciate your feedback. -John
January 29, 2010 at 3:53 am
Thanks for this info, I really enjoyed reading it!
January 29, 2010 at 12:33 am
Based on your comments/analysis sounds like I’d walk away too…. if we had it in Brazil…
January 29, 2010 at 12:35 am
Maxine, I have a present, just for you…. Trying to figure out how I ship it and my phone to Brazil.
John
January 29, 2010 at 12:30 am
John, I loaded the app on my iPhone last week. My initial reaction was “so what.” I realize we’re talking early … REALLY early. However, I’m still not sure why I would put much energy into it. Having said that, I plan on staying with it a while and exploring the possibilities as well as others experiences. Bummer about the shutdown part! Aaron
January 29, 2010 at 12:34 am
Good luck Aaron, thanks for the note.
January 29, 2010 at 12:23 am
First John, get a better mobile device. The Q is going to ruin your experience with any of these services. Too slow. Second, don’t bother with Gowalla – it’s not really better and they seem to have more connection issues than 4Sq, IMO. Also, think about Yelp. They have added check-ins but they are more useful with the reviews they offer as well as locating local services better.
All-in-all, these location based services are still “games” for most people, but once retailers start offering incentives to “check-in”, it might be worth it to the common folks.
January 29, 2010 at 12:27 am
LOL, thank you for stating the obvious about my phone, included it expecting somene to comment.
With that said, still too slow, in all seriousness, to be of any use.
I agree with you that these are still just games. In large part, the makers of these games are failing to deliver the necessary value to make the promise of local all that it can be. If someone comes along that will provide enough of the tools to sell to a few local malls, prove value in that larger environment, I think we’ll begin to see wins out in your local neighborhoods. until that day comes, you’re better off spending your time on other things.
John
January 28, 2010 at 11:52 pm
Interesting point you raise. I see credence in both sides of the argument. So much of the retail world has moved online, that the definition of retail as brick-n-mortar simply doesn’t cut it anymore. With the CVS example, I think CVS *and* CVS.com can leverage each other’s venues to cross-promote. I’m not sure if a blog can be considered a venue, but you know, that should be up to the blog owner’s discretion. I agree, *NO ONE* should be able to delete something that they didn’t create, unless it’s clear spam or illegal activity or something else along those lines.
So I’ve been on your blog a bunch of times… Do I get to be mayor?
January 29, 2010 at 12:00 am
LOL, you didn’t checkin to my blog though, otherwise I would let you be the Mayor
Thanks Maria.
John
January 28, 2010 at 11:13 pm
or MyTown…has the biggest user base–bigger than FourSquare or Gowalla. The MyTown site http://www.booyah.com/ and the write up from the Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/20/AR2010012003439.html
January 28, 2010 at 11:44 pm
Thank you, Iwill check out MyTown too. -John